NPR: “Behind Closed Doors”
I was hosted recently by Michel Martin on “Tell Me More,” a program on National Public Radio. Juhu Thukral from the Sex Workers Project at the Urban Justice Center and Annie Lobert, the founder of Hookers for Jesus also participated. The segment is titled Behind Closed Doors: The Reality of Prostitution, a bit gimmicky, it’s true, but, hey, it’s not like they needed my opinion…
I had several problems with the interview. I had long, drawn-out series of conversations with the NPR folks about “legal” issues surrounding my use of a pseudonym, and, in the end, they decided to broadcast that I was going solely by William because I was “in fear of arrest.” The most disturbing point being that NPR failed to credit the organization I was representing, Sex Workers Action New York (SWANK). This went down as both the Sex Workers Project and Hookers for Jesus were represented in a strong way. I guess sex workers currently working in the business are too busy in the alleyways shooting up, so how could they be organized, right? I tried to make up for it by referencing SWANK quite a few times.
The next bits are mostly my fault: I compared the reproductive right of abortion in poor economic circumstances, which I called a “choice among limited choices,” to the “choice” of doing sex work. Not the happiest of comparisons.
I also wasn’t clear enough when I mentioned the move between the “getting by” model, which I said involved trading sex casually for food and shelter out of bars and clubs, to the “professional” model. Michel Martin took that to mean I was an always street working kid, which isn’t accurate, and I didn’t get edited in for correcting her as I would have liked to. I was in seriously strained economic circumstances after moving out at 15-ish, it’s true, but being a well-educated Irish kid, I didn’t have as much trouble as I could have, and the fact that it was sex work to sleep with someone for a bed, a dinner, a raise at work, or a ride to Paris didn’t enter my mind back then.
So, you win some you lose some. Overall, I don’t think it was too bad for a first-timer on radio, and I learned a lot from Annie L. and Juhu besides.
May 16, 2008 at 6:51 pm
I thought y’all, including Martin, did really well.
I do wonder the gender question though, in light of what you’ve posted about male sex workers *not* getting busted as of yet on Craigslist.
What’s up with that? Since when are queer men not marginalized and targeted at least as much as women are? Or is it that we *are* so marginalized that we slip through the holes in the moralists’ nets?
Most likely, it’s just plain old sexism intersecting with plain old homophobia. Women are thought of as in need of protection, thus the law wants to protect them (in the case of sex workers by throwing their asses in jail and ruining their friendships, families, and source of income). Men *aren’t* generally seen as in need of protection, (especially from sexual violence), and in the case of fags suckfucking fags for money, (I’m being facetious), we may not be seen as deserving of moral or legal protection.
I don’t know if it’s quite so simple as all that, but I bet gender matters a lot. I wonder what the law does with trans workers?
Anyhoo, that’s all theoretical. I couldn’t agree with you more that what needs to be done is to listen to sex-workers themselves.
May 16, 2008 at 7:24 pm
I totally feel you on the gender question. I think my “Not really” answer to Michel Martin’s question “Isn’t there a difference, though, William?” was intended to answer what I thought she meant: “Aren’t women de facto oppressed in sex work and you’re empowered because you’re a man? Aren’t men biologically driven to have sex, so what’s so different about doing it for $$$?”
So I said “No.” But you’re right about women in the Craigslist busts. And busts generally, for that matter. Now, it gets tricky making comparisons in oppression, but it is certainly the case that men and transwomen make significantly, and I mean significantly, less than women in almost all areas of the sex industry: escorting, street work, porn, stripping. The same goes for “White” people making significantly, and I mean significantly, more than other folks in the industry. That’s sexism, racism, homophobia, and transphobia all rolled up into a paycheck.
There’s the great article “The Price of Being Different” by Kevicha Echols in $pread Magazine, Issue 3.1 about price differentials. I think it’s a very important question to discuss.
But I think I’d still answer no to Michel Martin, just cause I could tell it being reduced to Me v. Annie on the question is sex work de facto oppressive. And to that I’ll always answer no.
May 23, 2008 at 5:45 am
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